Contrast and Comparison

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

I've pretty much got Harry Potter on the brain 24/7, and then lately, I've been going through a few of the YW books in preparation for getting A Wizard of Mars this Friday for my birthday. *bounces* Both fandoms got jumbled in my head and I kept seeing similarities and the interesting differences in the ways the two authors handled different concepts and themes, and eventually, I had to put it all down in a word doc to exorcise it from my brain, lol, so I could function instead of endlessly pondering YW vs HP. Because fun as it is, so distracting!

I don't pretend to be objective in any way, this post is pretty much how I think Diane Duane rocks in so many ways that JKR fails to measure up to, and all the things I love about YW and how it's also dealt with in HP. My HP f-listers disagree with pretty much everything I wrote, lol, I'm curious to see if you guys would agree.

If you're interested in a discussion, take a look here at my journal.

Comments

[majaji.livejournal.com]

fantastic!

YW is obviously the more thought out series and you make many valid points. I still adore Harry Potter, but I still adore YW, possibly more now. HP is something I'd give my kids (when i have them) to read when they were young, and then when they got a little older and we could actually discuss the meanings and views and emotions I'd give them YW. I'd still talk HP with them though. Talk about it's flaws, and about what Harry could have done better, but HP still gives some classic good lessons. Love above all else... etc. (speaking of Lilly and Severus and Sirius and Hagrid and even the Dursleys in their obsessive and blinding love toward Dudly. thanks for the read!

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Thanks for reading! *squish*

HP is something I'd give my kids (when i have them) to read when they were young

See, that’s totally fine, kids don’t tend to analyze stuff as much as we do, lol, and it’s a great book for little kids to enjoy- it’s just I’m creeped out by adults who read these things and agree with all the failtastic (im)moral messages and support some of the uglier events that happen in the books. >_<

[Why, as a teacher, does JKR glorify bullying and have no authority figures step in to deal with it?! One of the many things that drives me crazy]

So it’s good that you’d be discussing its flaws and mistakes, because it offers a lot of fodder for conversation and it’d be a neat way to open their minds and consider different aspects of the series from different POVs.

and then when they got a little older and we could actually discuss the meanings and views and emotions I'd give them YW.

I kinda wanna have kids just for that, lol! But there’s no guarantee they’d be into reading. *ponders* I shall wait for my cousins to bear offspring for me to brainwash!

PS. I wrote a reply to this comment ages ago and then I was searching through my journal and couldn't find it! And I was flailing like, 'Did I make this comment up? Did the poster delete it? Where the hell did it go?' And I completely forgot it was here, lol. *headdesk*

[pigeonpooponyou.livejournal.com]

I read your post and I agree and disagree with some of your points. I am one of those that love both YW and HP for very different reasons and don't typically place one above the other. They're very different and I think it's easier to see them as such.

The one thing I'd like to point out is that you have to separate Harry Potter the books from Harry Potter the movies. I agree with your point about wishing that JKR had gone into more details about how magic works and how you create spells, but I don't think that it's nearly as easy as you make it seem. JKR always made it seem like it was a difficult thing to create new spells (example when fred and george are making all of their products they refer to how it took them years to develop it, as well as all of Snape's secret potion tricks in HBP) Those are clearly the result of lots of studying and hard work. I agree the movies made it seem rediculously simple, but I don't think they portrayed magic as JKR had written it, they just oversimplified it (and just about everything else. I find them entertaining but they lose so much of what I loved about the books) for the sake of making a movie. Seriously, the whole expelliarmus bugged the crap out of me too in the movies. And the whole face sucking dementors- stretchy faces do not equal an overwhelming feeling of sadness. Ugh.

I thought of her magic more like chemistry(I may be a science nerd...>_>). If you want to make a new type of medicine it takes years and years of study and knowledge to figure out what reactions to use and what effects the drug will have. (I can't think of a better example, but think of when lee jordan burned off his eyebrows by messing up a spell, With the wrong pronounciation or wand movements the spell has entirely different effects) However, if it's something that scientists have already learned how to make, you have to learn the ingredients and how to prepare things, but you leanr it by studying.

I think that's actually one of the similarities, while YW is more like home schooling and HP is more public education, they both encourage learning and nerdyness. I loved Fred and George for being so devoted and creative in making all of their own crazy spells and things, just as nita and kit are always learning more about their craft.


Those were just a couple of things that stuck out in my mind. Don't get me wrong though, I do think a lot of your points were quite valid (ps. I think you should write a nita/lone power fanfic and post it up here, I am a fan of him as well) I love the lone power much more than voldy, but I think each series has merits and weaknesses.

It was a good read though :)

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

I am one of those that love both YW and HP for very different reasons and don't typically place one above the other. They're very different and I think it's easier to see them as such.

I’m glad you love both series and don’t feel the need to compare them, it’s just that for me, when I love something, I inevitably end up comparing it some thing else, just as an exercise because I find it fun. [Like Mentalist and Castle, for instance, or heck, any two random sci-fi shows!]

JKR always made it seem like it was a difficult thing to create new spells (example when fred and george are making all of their products they refer to how it took them years to develop it, as well as all of Snape's secret potion tricks in HBP) Those are clearly the result of lots of studying and hard work.

I can understand how creating potions and trick products would be difficult, in fact, it’s almost impossible for me to comprehend how people can devise such things. With chemistry, people can analyze different compounds and experiment with mixing different things together and extrapolating from that, but for potions, I mean, JKR doesn’t go into the theory of potions at all so I have no idea how, for instance, stirring something one way once and then ten times the other way would even occur to anyone as a possible improvement because it’s so random. And the things that the twins create, the mind boggles, it’s so insanely complex that IDEK how they could come up with it.

But my point was that spells are ridiculously easy, or should be, based on what limited rules she’s come up with. Just put together a bunch of Latin words and hey presto, there’s a spell! So why aren’t people doing this all the time? Why don’t ALL Latin phrases have innate power? Why is it Latin in particular? [That’s the problem with using an existing language instead of making up your own] And how in the hell does one or two words achieve the often complicated actions that take place in the text?

Seriously, the whole expelliarmus bugged the crap out of me too in the movies. And the whole face sucking dementors- stretchy faces do not equal an overwhelming feeling of sadness. Ugh.

LMAO. Yeah, though to be fair, JKR changed how expelliarmus worked from one book to the next- the most notable being when using it somehow made you the master of someone’s wand, and wait, there’s more, not just that wand, but ALL their wands, and hey, further qualification, it doesn’t need to be a magic duel to obtain magic ownership over a magic wand, just snatching it will do the trick! W. T. F.

And lol, well, I don’t know how the Dementors could have the same effect onscreen as in the books- we get Harry’s POV telling us how sad he is [and I have a huge problem with how Harry’s trauma is worse than anyone else’s to the point where he faints, like losing his parents when he was an infant is going to be more traumatic than Luna losing her mother, whom she actually knew and loved, or Neville who was possibly present for his parents’ torture- he mentions knowing what Cruciatus sounds like- and having to deal wit them being completely insane] whereas the movie-makers have to settle for making them creepy as hell because the audience isn’t going to have their worst memories brought to the fore.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

think of when lee jordan burned off his eyebrows by messing up a spell, With the wrong pronounciation or wand movements the spell has entirely different effects

Wrong pronunciation, sure, I can see that being an issue with something as esoteric as Latin [hey, did it ever occur to anyone that maybe TEACHING LATIN would be a good idea given how their whole magical system is founded on it? Would it have killed her to mention Hermione picking up Latin as an elective?] but wand movements? JKR never developed wand movements beyond that swish and flick thing, and then she abandoned it. So all the kids need to do is to pronounce the thing right and wave their wand dramatically in any random fashion and the spell is executed. Too easy. It’s just way too pat for my liking. She rarely thinks through the implications of her own plot developments and it drives me nuts. I mean, what about non-verbal spells? What’s the big deal about them? Instead of saying something out loud, you say it in your mind, how could that be as hard as she makes it out to be? It’s just something to try to hype up how complex and intricate her system is when it’s so not. And then she wants to bring in wandless magic, and I’m just…ARGH. If she’d elaborated on how magic worked and how people accessed their magic, it might make sense but as it is, she just throws in random plot elements that seem cool or that are needed to steer the story in the right direction with no regard for how it impacts the world she’s created!

I loved Fred and George for being so devoted and creative in making all of their own crazy spells and things, just as nita and kit are always learning more about their craft.

Okay, sorry, I don’t wanna harsh your squee but the twins were just supreme douchebags from my pov. They were among the worst bullies of this series, they always tormented other kids, and unlike Slytherins who stuck together and defended their own, F&G didn’t even have any House loyalty because they’d just as soon bully kids from their own House as any other. It disgusted me how JKR painted them as these two high-spirited guys who were so cool and so popular and fun when they’d inflict pain and humiliation on so much of the student body just to amuse themselves. Because hurting people is cool when a Gryffindor does it, no dark tendencies there!

I think you should write a nita/lone power fanfic and post it up here, I am a fan of him as well

LMAO, I wish I could, but it’s beyond my limited abilities as a fanfic writer, I’m afraid. I shall wait and yearn and hope for someone to post an epic-length fic someday in the near future. *iz wistful*

It was a good read though :)

Even if we disagreed on some things, I’m glad you enjoyed reading it! *squish*

[starrius-tromas.livejournal.com]

Can I just say "WOW!" I LOVE this entry! You should re-post to the Facebook Young Wizards group, if you haven't done so.

I didn't read Young Wizards til I was over 30 and only read through The Wizard's Dilemma. I am working my way through again and, at the moment, am reading Wizard's Holiday. Somewhere between the first time and now, I read Harry Potter. The first thing to cross my mind was how much better I thought Young Wizards was if, for no other reason, how much better DD wrote emotion. That, and having been a bullied kid, I so much more empathized with Nita.

My thoughts on YW v HP are well known with friends and run along the same lines as yours.

I think that HP is a good start for younger readers, up to a point. A point of contention I have with HP is simply book length. They start off at a nice, easy to read length but by the end are approaching, if not surpassing, Lord of the Rings or Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series. Seriously long winded. These could have been broken up into several smaller books that would be easier to digest and to hold while reading.

By contrast, YW is a fairly consistent book length.

Any way, wonderful post. Thanks for sharing!